http://www.ltaaa.com/wtfy/koreao.html
I find most chinese I meet in north america have a very narrow sense of what Chinese means. To them, China means Hong Kong or Guangzhou because most chinese in Canada originate from there.
我发现我在北美碰到的大多数中国人对中国人的定义很狭义。对他们来说，中国就是香港或者广州，因为大部分在加拿大的中国人来源于那里。
I find they don't know much about how broad and diverse China is as a country. Most of them know nothing about Beijing and the forbidden city, the underground army at Xian, the natural wonders in Yunnan. They know about Shanghai, mainly because its a very well developed city just like HK.
我发现他们对中国这个国家了解甚微，不知道它多么辽阔多么丰富多彩。大多数人对北京，紫禁城，西安的兵马俑，云南的自然奇观一无所知。他们知道上海，主要是因为它像香港一样是个发达的城市。
But I find most of them just know about HK and when they see Chinese coming from other parts of China, particularly the north, it's almost like meeting people of another ethnicity.
但我又发现他们中的大多数只了解香港，当他们看到从中国其他地方来的国人时，就像碰到其他民族的人一样，特别是碰到北方人。
I find this a serious problem that there is so much divisions between chinese people.You never see this issue with koreans or japanese or other asians.
我觉得中国人之间如此大的差异是个严重的问题。这样的问题在韩国人或日本人或其他亚洲人上是看不到的。
My korean friend found it strange that there were so many different kinds of Chinese. At first, he didn't know all the differences about Chinese and just assumed chinese were chinese. But after being around lots of chinese, he found it perplexing that people of the same country have so many problems communicating with one another.
我的韩国朋友感到很奇怪，中国人怎么有如此多的类型。首先，他不知道中国人大不相同只是假设中国人就是中国人。但经历过身边这么多的中国人后，他觉得很困惑，来自同一国家的人在互相交流时也会有这么多的问题。
-------------译者：发电机-------------
The main issue is language. I rarely see the HK/Cantonese crowd mix with the mainland chinese crowd even though we are supposedly of the same ethnic group.
主要的原因是语言。我很少看到香港人或广东人与大陆人混在一起，尽管他们是有着相同的血统。
Language is the most important thing in what defines a people together. When people of the same ethnic group cannot even communicate with one another, that is a serious problem.
在定义人群这方面，语言是重要的因素。当相同种族的人不能够相互交流，这是一个很严重的问题。
As a result of this, I really don't have any feeling of what being chinese means. We are so diverse and so different that it just doesn't mean anything anymore.
就这个结果来看，我真的无法回答作为中国人意味着什么这个问题。我们是那样的多种多样，尽管不是所有的事情都是这样。
As a mainlander myself, I find most of chinese culture overseas is of cantonese origin and so I don't feel I identify with it. For one thing, I can't speak cantonese and most of the chinese here are cantonese-speaking and they hang around one another in cliques.
作为一个大陆人，我发现大多数海外的中国文化都起源于广东，同时我并不觉得有归属感。举个例子，我不会讲广东话，但是这里大多数中国人都会说广东话，于是我就被晾在了一边。
I'm not a fan of andy lau or any of those HK stars. IF anything, I enjoy south korean entertainment and identify with it much more. I'm from Beijing so I'm a northern chinese and I appreciate mainland china and korean pop culture much more than I do HK pop culture.
我不是刘德华的粉丝，也不是任何香港明星的粉丝。如果可能，我更欣赏南韩的娱乐界，并且觉得更适合我。我来自北京，所以我是一个北方人，我喜欢中国大陆和韩国的流行文化更甚于香港的流行文化。
and how can other chinese be expected to consider HK a part of the country when chinese people can't even go to HK without obtaining permission first?
大陆人在获得许可之前就不能进入香港，这样其他的中国人还把香港当成中国的一部分吗？
I find most chinese I meet in north america have a very narrow sense of what Chinese means. To them, China means Hong Kong or Guangzhou because most chinese in Canada originate from there.
我发现我在北美碰到的大多数中国人对中国人的定义很狭义。对他们来说，中国就是香港或者广州，因为大部分在加拿大的中国人来源于那里。
I find they don't know much about how broad and diverse China is as a country. Most of them know nothing about Beijing and the forbidden city, the underground army at Xian, the natural wonders in Yunnan. They know about Shanghai, mainly because its a very well developed city just like HK.
我发现他们对中国这个国家了解甚微，不知道它多么辽阔多么丰富多彩。大多数人对北京，紫禁城，西安的兵马俑，云南的自然奇观一无所知。他们知道上海，主要是因为它像香港一样是个发达的城市。
But I find most of them just know about HK and when they see Chinese coming from other parts of China, particularly the north, it's almost like meeting people of another ethnicity.
但我又发现他们中的大多数只了解香港，当他们看到从中国其他地方来的国人时，就像碰到其他民族的人一样，特别是碰到北方人。
I find this a serious problem that there is so much divisions between chinese people.You never see this issue with koreans or japanese or other asians.
我觉得中国人之间如此大的差异是个严重的问题。这样的问题在韩国人或日本人或其他亚洲人上是看不到的。
My korean friend found it strange that there were so many different kinds of Chinese. At first, he didn't know all the differences about Chinese and just assumed chinese were chinese. But after being around lots of chinese, he found it perplexing that people of the same country have so many problems communicating with one another.
我的韩国朋友感到很奇怪，中国人怎么有如此多的类型。首先，他不知道中国人大不相同只是假设中国人就是中国人。但经历过身边这么多的中国人后，他觉得很困惑，来自同一国家的人在互相交流时也会有这么多的问题。
-------------译者：发电机-------------
The main issue is language. I rarely see the HK/Cantonese crowd mix with the mainland chinese crowd even though we are supposedly of the same ethnic group.
主要的原因是语言。我很少看到香港人或广东人与大陆人混在一起，尽管他们是有着相同的血统。
Language is the most important thing in what defines a people together. When people of the same ethnic group cannot even communicate with one another, that is a serious problem.
在定义人群这方面，语言是重要的因素。当相同种族的人不能够相互交流，这是一个很严重的问题。
As a result of this, I really don't have any feeling of what being chinese means. We are so diverse and so different that it just doesn't mean anything anymore.
就这个结果来看，我真的无法回答作为中国人意味着什么这个问题。我们是那样的多种多样，尽管不是所有的事情都是这样。
As a mainlander myself, I find most of chinese culture overseas is of cantonese origin and so I don't feel I identify with it. For one thing, I can't speak cantonese and most of the chinese here are cantonese-speaking and they hang around one another in cliques.
作为一个大陆人，我发现大多数海外的中国文化都起源于广东，同时我并不觉得有归属感。举个例子，我不会讲广东话，但是这里大多数中国人都会说广东话，于是我就被晾在了一边。
I'm not a fan of andy lau or any of those HK stars. IF anything, I enjoy south korean entertainment and identify with it much more. I'm from Beijing so I'm a northern chinese and I appreciate mainland china and korean pop culture much more than I do HK pop culture.
我不是刘德华的粉丝，也不是任何香港明星的粉丝。如果可能，我更欣赏南韩的娱乐界，并且觉得更适合我。我来自北京，所以我是一个北方人，我喜欢中国大陆和韩国的流行文化更甚于香港的流行文化。
and how can other chinese be expected to consider HK a part of the country when chinese people can't even go to HK without obtaining permission first?
大陆人在获得许可之前就不能进入香港，这样其他的中国人还把香港当成中国的一部分吗？
-------------译者：发电机-------------
#2 Guest_Wu_*
Yeah yeah, you want everybody to become mandarin clones and good "hans".
Well to be honest, I have met a few people on my travels in Guangzhou who told me that it would be better for Cantonese to have a seperate nation and no direct control from Beijing.
很好很好，你想让每个人都成为说着普通话的克隆人并且成为标准的“汉人”。
说实话，我在广州旅行遇到的一些人，他们告诉我也许广东成为一个北京控制之外的独立国家会更好。
#3 Sliceofred
Quote
Well to be honest, I have met a few people on my travels in Guangzhou who told me that it would be better for Cantonese to have a seperate nation and no direct control from Beijing.
说实话，我在广州旅行遇到的一些人，他们告诉我也许广东成为一个北京控制之外的独立国家会更好。
--
Really, would be interesting to have a poll and see how many people would favour it. Promoting Cantonese at schools, society, government.... sounds interesting. Of course nobody would dare speak about it in public, we already saw what happened when those villages in Guangzhou fought with the police.
真的吗，做一个投票看看有多少人赞成这个想法，这也许很有趣。在学校、社会、政府促进广东话...听起来不错。当然没有人会在公共场合冒险谈论这个话题，当广东附近的村民与警察搏斗时，我们已经看到发生了什么。
#4 palapa
the only reason is because china is still closing themselves up ...
while HK is used to be british colony, their view of life is entirely different from china ... however their language cantonese is orginated from chinese dialect as well
only recently that china open up themselves and encouraging people from all over the world to see their culture .. and the first places they visit of course is famous places like shanghai .. etc
how do u expect people to know about china ... but u will see a vast difference in a couple of years time when people finally understand about the vast cultural different between the different places of china
唯一的原因是中国人仍然在闭关锁国......
因为香港过去是英国人的殖民地，所以他们关于生活的想法与大陆完全不同......然而他们所说的广东话也还是起源于中国的方言的。
直到现在中国开放了自己，并且欢迎全世界的人来参观他们的文化......而这些人第一个访问的地方当然是有名的地方，像上海...等等。
你期待大家怎样来了解中国......但是，当大家最终了解中国各地的不同文化之后，几年内你将在海外看到中国文化的各种各样的不同点。
-------------译者：pandarunner-------------
#5 Guest_Guest_whatever_*_*
not another stupid topic like this again :duh
again there's more generalization which is leading to more sterotypes like there isn't enough of that already without a so called 'chinese' to add to it
别再来这种二逼帖子了。像这种一棒子打死的说法只会引起更多的成见，还要加上一个所谓的“中国人”。
so again, most Chinese do not think that Chinese = Guangzhou or HK :starizrolleyes: sure there are many Han chinese but there other nationalities that make up China such as Bai or Mongolian. China is a very large country, even from an evolutionary aspect it's impossible to expect all "Chinese" to be carbon copies of each other. referenced from http://en.wikipedia....lities_of_China
那么，大部分中国人不会认为中国人=广东人或香港人。（中国）确实汉族人更多，但也有像白族或蒙古族这样的民族共同组成中国。中国是一个大国，仅仅从进化的角度都不能说所有的“中国人”都是同根生，参考： http://en.wikipedia....lities_of_China
As to the so called language barrier, please do some reasearch and obtain solid evidence and facts before making any statement that are purely based on personal opinion, speculation and random generalizations.
至于所谓的语言障碍，麻烦去读点书找些实证和事实，不要发这种一己之见，也别来意淫和当专家。
As I've stated China itself is a large country that was never wholly united as based on history even today there are sections such as Tibet where China's claims upon it are being challenged.
我说过，中国是一个大国，从古至今都没有完全一体化；现在都在经受来自一些像xz这样的地方的挑战。
So ok to simplify this for you, even in the beginning of the 1900, it was rare for individuals living in villages to travel farther than to surrounding villages not to mention venturing into Northern China if they lived for example in southern China, which could explain the diversity in dialects as each village developed variations in each as a means to communicate uniquely so dialects were mostly the creation of geography and survival. This could be compared to dialects of American English if you're so obsessed about that example.
Cantonese is one of those dialects that most closely resembles "Old Chinese" in it's structure as it possesses 9 tones while Mandarin has simplified to 5 tones so if you wanted original Old Chinese, it'd be Cantonese.
In reference to http://en.wikipedia....spoken_language clearly indicates that even within Mandarin there are variations and differences ie dialects. But Mandarin or Bejing Mandarin is the lingua franca thus many "Chinese" speak it in order to communicate to others of a different dialect for social or economical means.
Thus in conclusion, China is a diverse country and the term "Chinese" is much more complex and cannot be defined in such simplistic and shallow terms.
简单点说，20世纪初的中国，农村人很少会远走他乡，最多见见邻村的乡亲，华南人更不会去远涉华北；这就解释了为什么每个村的方言都不一样。方言作为一种独特的沟通方式，源于地理差异和自我生存。如果你再纠结于这个例子，就可以拿它和美国英语方言做一下比较。
广东话是最接近“古汉语”的一种方言，里面包含9个音调；而普通话只有5个。如果你想知道古汉语的渊源，最好去了解广东话。
参考一下维基百科词条： http://en.wikipedia....spoken_language，明确说了普通话里面也有区分。但是普通话（或者说是北京话）是通用语言，所以很多操不同方言的“中国人”为了彼此交流而把它当成一种社交或者经济手段加以运用。
总之，中国是一个大杂烩，“中国人”这三个字过于复杂，无法用三言两语来定义。
-------------译者：anyan7654-------------
#6 MerryHellGoRound （楼主）
palapa, on Feb 28 2006 5 11 AM, said:
the only reason is because china is still closing themselves up ...
唯一的原因是中国人然在闭关锁国......
--
I hope you are right. Unfortunately, for many of the cantonese speaking ABCs, CBCs and BBCs, it could already be too late.
我希望你是对的，然而不幸的是，对于很多说着广东话的美籍华人，加拿大籍华人跟英籍华人，闭关锁国已经太晚了
Guest_whatever_*, on Feb 28 2006 5 20 AM, said:
not another stupid topic like this again :duh
别再来这种二逼帖子了
--
Cantonese is similiar to old Chinese in tone and grammar but not in the way its spoken.
Old Chinese was multi-syllable, kinda similiar to maybe korean. It gradually evolved into a one syllable per character form that we know today.
粤语跟中国古语在腔调跟语法上有些相似，但说起来并不是完全相同。
中国古语是一种多音节语言，有些相似于韩语。然后古语逐渐演化成了一种今天我们所知道的单音节的汉语。
#7 Guest_Guest_whatever_*_*
MerryHellGoRound, on Feb 28 2006 7 34 PM, said:
Cantonese is similiar to old Chinese in tone and grammar but not in the way its spoken.
Old Chinese was multi-syllable, kinda similiar to maybe korean. It gradually evolved into a one syllable per character form that we know today.
粤语跟中国古语在腔调跟语法上有些相似，但说起来并不是完全相同。
中国古语是一种多音节语言，有些相似于韩语。然后古语逐渐演化成了一种今天我们所知道的单音节的汉语。
--
Where is your source for this claim? Even scholars today do not know exactly how it was pronounced and draw their conclusions from Classical Chinese, a written form.
"Since Old Chinese was the language spoken by Chinese when classical works such as the Analects of Confucius, the Mencius, and the Tao Te Ching were written, Old Chinese was preserved for the next two millennia in the form of Classical Chinese, a style of written Chinese that emulates the grammar and vocabulary of Old Chinese as presented in those works. Classical Chinese was for two millennia the usual language used for official purposes in China, Korea, Japan, and Vietnam. However, there is great variation within Classical Chinese, based mainly on when something was written, and the Classical Chinese of more recent writers, as well as that found outside of China, would probably be difficult for someone from Confucius's era to understand.
这就是你提出观点所依靠的资源么？就算学究也没法清楚的从文言文中得知他们的读音。
“自从古汉语在论语，孟子，道德经等经典成书的时候被使用。古汉语从此后在中国的经典中保存了2000年，在那些作品中展现了一种模仿古汉语语法跟词汇的风格。古汉语在超过2000年的时间里作为中国，韩国，日本还有越南的官方语言。然后经典的汉语经历的很大的变化，主要是在书写方面，近代的文言文跟中国以外的文言文，对于从孔夫子那个时代来的人来说是非常难以理解的。
-------------译者：燕归来-------------
The phonology of Old Chinese was imperfectly preserved in Classical Chinese, because the way the Chinese writing system indicates pronunciation is much less clear than the way an alphabet shows it. As a result, the pronunciation of Old Chinese can only be tentatively reconstructed, and is unknown outside academic circles."
古汉语体系没能在文言文中被完美地体现，因为中文书写与发音的联系是远远不如字母系统的。而这所导致的结果就是，古汉语的发音只能被试探性地重现——作为未知的学术领域。
"Chinese characters are not alphabetic and do not reflect sound changes, and the tentative reconstruction of Old Chinese is an endeavour only a few centuries old. As a result, Classical Chinese is not read with a reconstruction of Old Chinese pronunciation; instead, it is either read with the pronunciations of the reader's own variety of Chinese, such as modern Mandarin or Cantonese; or, in varieties of Chinese that have it (e.g. Southern Min), a special set of pronunciation used for Classical Chinese or vocabulary and usage borrowed from Classical Chinese usage. (In practice, all varieties of Chinese combine these two extremes; Mandarin and Cantonese, for example, also has words that are pronounced one way in colloquial usage and another way when used in Classical Chinese or in specialized terms coming from Classical Chinese, though the system is not as extensive as that of Southern Min.)
“中文特征不是字母性的，它不反映读音变化。古汉语的试探性重现是一项只有数个世纪的尝试，因此，文言文读起来并不能联系到古汉文的发音；反而文言文的发音是因不同口音而异的，如：现代普通话或广东话，又或者，像南明朝那样为文言文或者字典设立专门的发音，用法则借用文言文规则。（事实上，所有种类的中国话都结合了这两种极端；举例而言，普通话与广东话在口语中有发音相同的文字；而在文言文或者引用、延伸于文言文的专业术语中，这些文字又被以另一种方式运用。当然，现在的体系没有在南明朝时期那么丰富。)
-------------译者：monkbobby-------------
Korean, Japanese, or Vietnamese readers of Classical Chinese use systems of pronunciation specific to their own languages. For example, Japanese speakers use On'yomi and (more rarely) Kun'yomi, which are the ways kanji, or Chinese characters, are read when they are used to write in Japanese. Kunten, a system that aids Japanese speakers with Classical Chinese word order, was also used.
-------------译者：燕归来-------------
#8 ^x^A reason to love^-^
MerryHellGoRound, on Feb 28 2006 6 34 PM, said:
I hope you are right. Unfortunately, for many of the cantonese speaking ABCs, CBCs and BBCs, it could already be too late.
Cantonese is similiar to old Chinese in tone and grammar but not in the way its spoken.
Old Chinese was multi-syllable, kinda similiar to maybe korean. It gradually evolved into a one syllable per character form that we know today.
我希望你是对的，然而不幸的是，对于很多说着广东话的美籍华人，加拿大籍华人跟英籍华人，闭关锁国已经太晚了
粤语跟中国古语在腔调跟语法上有些相似，但说起来并不是完全相同。
中国古语是一种多音节语言，有些相似于韩语。然后古语逐渐演化成了一种今天我们所知道的单音节的汉语。
--
COULD it could
that means your suggesting there is a chance.
its never to late to learn.
Im a 16 year old BBC and i know about the forbidden city, the hidden grave"bing ma yung" i know many chinese who know about this
even if i dont KNOW mandarine i still feel a connection... i know cantonese
if there was stuck in a room of say a mandarine person and others i would try as hard as i can to try and talk mandarin to them
and to say old chinese is multi-syllable and then alternating to one syllable... you cant possibly know that.
no one knows because now one is able to live that long to actually prove it and all these years the chinese language we speak MUST have evolved...
I for one actually like listening to Japanese music like Miyavi and Kra and Gazzette
And i for one like watching Korean movies
We're all asian so i dont find this a problem
Also im not too fond of Andy Lau, so what?
it doesnt make you go "urgh!!! i dont feel chinese or whatever you were saying..."
I like Jolin Tsai and Wong Guang Liang and Huang Yi da
那意味着你在这的提议是一个机会。
学习永远不会太晚。
我是个16岁的BBC，我知道关于紫禁城的事情以及许多中国人熟知的暗墓 ”兵马俑“。
我会广东话 ，即使我不懂普通话我也能体会到个中联系。。。
（以前）如果在我与一个说普通话的人之间有了隔阂和其它什么 (交流妨碍)，我会尽我所能去跟他们讲普通话。
至于说中文从多音节演变为单音节，你不可能了解它。
没有人了解。因为没有人能活那么长，去举证这些年来我们讲的中文肯定涉及到了blablabla...
我个人十分喜欢日本音乐，如石原贵雅、Kra ( 由PSC旗下三名成员组成 )和Gazzette (5人组合的视觉系乐队)。
我个人也喜欢看韩国电影。
我们都是亚洲人因此我不认为这有什么问题。
并且我也不是很喜欢刘德华，那又怎样？
不要觉得："呃！这货没说中文这货其实啥也没说吧 ……"
我喜欢蔡依林（台湾）、王光良 (马来西亚) 和 黄义达（新加坡）。
-------------译者：野狼-------------
So, what if i dont know mandarine i can always look up the lyrics and meanings.
You learn new things everyday...
business man may just see China as selling cheap stuff and large work force...
but my friends see China as traditional, and many people get mixed up with Japanese Kimono and Chinese traditional dresses
and also Korean's culture are mistaken with China culture by many of my friends...
Many whites here always (i dont know why) treat asians harsh but treat chinese harsher when they find out if they're chinese or japanese...
所以，如果我不会普通话我可以查歌词的意思。
每天你都在学习新的东西...
商人也许仅仅把中国看做一个可以销售大量廉价物品和有丰富劳动力的地方...
但我朋友看来中国还是蛮传统的，穿着日本和服和中国传统服饰的人混在一起。
我的很多朋友把韩国文化误认为中国文化...
很多白人对亚洲人总是很苛刻，但如果他们发现他们是中国人或日本人就更苛刻了...
Maybe because Tokyo is seen as "high tech" and modern? and also manga and anime increased their popularity and China is seen by others that it is very "not" modern, but they are catching up !
but many of my friends see Hong Kong seperated from China
they dont see Hong Kong as apart of China
...
whenever people ask me what language i speak i would say "i speak Cantonese but trying to learn Mandarine. Also i am from the Hakka Bloodline which is one of the many 60 odd tribes in China and also cantonese is one of 50 and more dialects which are still in use today in China..."
lol atleast they know!!! heheee
也许是因为东京被视为“高科技”和现代？同时日本漫画和动漫也增加了他们的名气也许是因为东京被视为“高科技”和现代？同时日本漫画和动漫也增加了他们的名气。中国在别人看来不那么现代，但是他们在迎头赶上！
但我很多朋友觉得香港分离了中国，他们不认为香港是中国的一部分
……
无论何时人们问我讲什么语言我会回答 "我说粤语但我正在努力学习普通话。我是客家族的，客家族是中国60个奇部落之一，同时，粤语也是中国现今仍然在使用的50种方言之一... "
-------------译者：寰宇龙腾-------------
#9 Guests
Personally, I think the Chinese culture amongst Hong Kong youths is a bastardized version of it (yes, I seem to be using that word a lot recently). However, one could argue that the Cultural Revolution in China destroyed many aspects of Chinese culture, and places like Hong Kong retained those aspects while they have been lost in China.
However, I'm an overseas "Honger" who knows about the Forbidden City, Tiananmen Square, Torracotta Army in Xi'an, Summer Palance (Yuan Ming Yuan), etc. through my own little research.
个人认为，香港年轻人中的中国文化是不正宗的（是的，我最近这词用的比较多）。但是有人认为文革毁坏了中国文化的很多方面，而香港则保留了那部分。
虽然我是一名海外港人，但通过自己的小研究我知道了紫禁城，天安广场，西安兵马俑，圆明园等等。
#10 bluepigsinthesky
China's really too big, and diverse to make such a generalization. Mandarin is actually the more commonly spoken language in China, with varying degrees depending on the provinces.
AND, that's an unfair to say that north american chinese are ignorant of their chinese culture. I live in Texas, the southern most state, and i can safely say that even with the assimilation of Chinese into the local society, most still retain their identity as a Chinese, just with the simple values and traditions they maintain. Of course, this is not true with everyone but that's just the way the cookie crumbles.
中国真的很大而且多采，不易概括。普通话是通用语言，各省份之间也有变化。而且，说北美的华人对中国不了解是不公的。我住在德克萨斯，在南方各州，我敢说即使把华人吸收进当地的社区，他们也保持自己中国人的认同，价值观和传统。当然，并不是每个人都如此。
I don't think cultural unity of the chinese is based on a universal liking for the same music, or even clothes. If anything, chinese are united by their diversity, from the different clans to the ties to the past.
Cultural ignorance is not confined to just north america anyways. When i visited home in malaysia, i was often asked about cowboys and horses. It's just because of the influence of mass media that stereotypes form.
i digress and lost my train of thought.
我认为中国人的文化统一并非基于普遍的相同的音乐，甚至服饰。如果有什么区别的话，那就是中国通过多样性而结合，从不同的宗族到依赖的过去。文化无知并不局限于北美。当我回到马来西亚的家乡，我经常被问到关于牛仔和马。这只是因为媒体的陈词滥调的影响。
我有点离题了。
#13 Linda Shirley Sheh
well tyes there are all these division and why is that beacuse there are so many of us but there is always a subculture within cultires just as there are cliques ar schools
as i can see it here are some types that i see
cbcs who are cbcs of course
then there are those who dont want to be friends with chinese ppl for somereason ebcause they think they are wihite- i see that in koreans too la
there are also those from HK who came here in their early teens and who think they are sooooo HK that they are more HK and meaner than those actually from HK
there are those from China
there are those wanna be CBCs who try to be like HK ppl
像在学校里分的小帮小派那样，因为总存在着亚文化圈子，我们也分成了不同的类型。
据我所知，就类型而言
CBC当然就是CBC（加拿大籍华人）
然后这里有一些家伙由于一些原因不希望跟中国人成为朋友——比如他们觉得自己是白人，我看到对于韩国人他们也有那么干过。
这里也有一些在年少时来到这里的香港人，认为自己非常 “香港”，甚至比土生土长的香港人还要 “香港”。
这里有来自中国的人。
这里有努力想变成CBC的人，比如香港人。
-------------译者：monkbobby-------------
#14 ipigS2bearyou
You seem to hate cantonese people with a passion Since you keep makin boards about them
似乎你很热衷于憎恨广东人，因为你一直拿他们来开涮
Accept the fact that China has many different dialects, and we dont all speak mandarin.
I speak cantonese, and I know about the Forbidden City and such as.
Ive been to China, all the mandarin speakin parts too.
接受现实吧，中国有很多不同的方言，不是所有人都说普通话的。我说广东话，我知道紫禁城。我去过中国，还有所有说普通话的地方。
And what does HK entertainment have to do with language?
I honestly could care less what you perfer to watch/listen to.
So you dont like HK entertainment, dont watch it.
香港娱乐圈关语言什么事？你喜欢看啥听啥我真的懒得管。既然你不喜欢香港娱乐圈，别看就是了。
So cantonese people hang around each other?Mandarin speakin people probably do the same The world is made up of cliques Live with it.
广东人喜欢扎堆？说普通话的估计也是这样子。世界就是由各种各样的小圈子组成的。没什么大不了的。
Jesus christ. Chinese is chinese. I rather have variety than all be the same.
老天。中国人就是中国人。多姿多彩比千篇一律好太多啦。
#17 skYmaster
From my experience, Cantonese don´t hate Northern Chinese or consider them as being less Chinese or something like that, but they are afraid of the "political orientations"-clash as they are totally different - one being democratic and the other one being communist. If they hang out together, they are afraid of upsetting the other "group" due to different views.
Moreover, due to the cultural revolution, many Northern Chinese lost the true Chinese culture, hence people from HK like to stick together as they have more in common culturally.
从我个人的经历来看，广东人并不恨北方人，也不觉得自己不是中国人。但他们最怕是“政治取向”-因为不同的政治取向导致的冲突-一方是民主派，另一方是共产党。如果他们待在一起，他们害怕因为观点不同引起另一方的不适。另外，由于文革的原因，许多北方人已经丢失了中国传统，因此香港人喜欢扎堆是因为文化上共同点更多一些。
-------------译者：野狼-------------
#18 doopeysmith
skYmaster, on 27 December 2011 - 12:04 AM, said:
From my experience, Cantonese don´t hate Northern Chinese or consider them as being less Chinese or something like that……
从我个人的经历来看，广东人并不恨北方人，也不觉得自己不是中国人……
--
HK ppl are not chinese and their culture is bastardized. You aren't even chinese. Look to jiangnan for the authentic chinese culture (despite northerner attempts to destroy them)
香港人自己觉得他们不是中国人，他们的文化已经不是正宗的中国文化了。你甚至都不是中国人。去江南看看地道的中国文化吧（尽管北方人试图消灭他们）
#19 allanandtherain
It isn't entirely true what you say, but it is because most of the wealth in asia is concentrated on the southern region that they get most of the spot lights when cultural stereotypes are made. But like those several people above, i do know about some of the cultural tendencies in northern china. Maybe the people you know are "white washed?"
你说的不完全正确，但因为亚洲大部分的财富集中在南部地区，当刻板的文化形成时，他们赢得了最大的关注。就像前几个人说的那样，我确实知道在中国北方的一些文化倾向。也许你知道的那些人被"美化"了？
I'm a CBC and i think that it goes both ways when Cantonese and Mandarin people are together. It's like a duck and a chicken talking. IMO, i think in fact mandarin people have less flexibility in conversing with us. If it wasn't for the english to gap the bridge between us, i highly doubt we would talk over here. When mandarin people try to speak broken cantonese, I don't laugh at them. In fact i tell them that i am impressed. I can hear some words and guess most of what they are saying by context. Cantonese and Mandarin are mutually intelligible.
我是加拿大华人的，我觉得当讲广东话的中国人和讲普通话的中国人在一起时，交流是双向的。就像鸡鸭在讲话一样。事实上讲普通话的中国人和我们谈话时灵活性较小。如果不是英语跨越了我们之间的桥梁，我很怀疑我们是否有机会在这里交流。当讲普通话的中国人尝试着去说破碎的广东话，我并不嘲笑他们。说真的，我告诉他们这给我留下了深刻的印象。我可以听懂一些词语，根据语境能猜出大概意思。广东话和普通话是可以互相理解的。
-------------译者：husama-------------
But in the other way around, it never happens. I get laughed at when i try to speak mandarin, they complain about how the tones are rough. that they cannot hear when they obviously can. atleast try to return the favor and try to guess. Maybe the people i meet are crappy, but thats my opinion
但相反的，这从不发生。当我说普通话时，他们总取笑我，还抱怨我发出的音调很粗糙他们听不清，而事实是，他们显然能听清我说的话。他们至少得试着去理解一下吧！可能我遇到的人都很垃圾，但这只是我个人意见。
doopeysmith, on 27 December 2011 - 06:21 AM, said:
HK ppl are not chinese and their culture is bastardized. You aren't even chinese. Look to jiangnan for the authentic chinese culture (despite northerner attempts to destroy them)
--香港人自己觉得他们不是中国人，他们的文化已经不是正宗的中国文化了。你甚至都不是中国人。去江南看看地道的中国文化吧（尽管北方人试图消灭他们）
---
so i suppose manchuria influenced north is any more chinese than HK people? But i do agree, Hk has been under western influence for so long, but atleast HK people have their own voice. my grandparents went to HK and they are proud of it, anyone who did that i know are proud of it. I see more of a culture there than that of some random place out north.
所以我假设你的意思是受满洲文化影响的北方比香港更加中国咯? 我同意这点，香港受西方文化影响了很长时间，但至少香港人拥有他们自己的声音。我祖父母去过香港，他们很为这事自豪，我知道的任何做过这事的人都会感到自豪。我在香港看到的文化氛围比除北方外其他随便一些地方都多。
#20 KingGoujian
Typical chimpanzee logic. I could've sworn that the cantonese are not humans, but chimps from another planet. There is nothing more I could discuss because trying to explain things to a cantonese hongkonger is like explaining quantum physics to a monkey.
典型的猩猩逻辑。我可以发誓这些广东人不是人类，他们只是其他星球来的黑猩猩。我没什么好说的了，因为跟广东人香港人解释这些事就像跟猴子讨论量子力学。
#21 qianliuwuyue
Cantonese people = chimpanzees. They are the true epitomy of a ''cheap chink rat''
guang
广东人=黑猩猩。 他们乃猥琐中国佬的典型缩影。
#22 allanandtherain
so i suppose Cantonese people = chimps, Shanghai people = apes, and fujian people = orangutangs?
Respect every regions language, that is why i don't like mandarin people. You want everyone to speak it. fine enforce it, but don't take away our regional languages. You've done that to shanghai, guangdong, what next?
所以我可以假设广东人=黑猩猩，上海人=类人猿，福建人=猩猩?
除了地方语言，这就是我不喜欢大陆人的原因。你想所有人学普通话，好，强制推普，但你不能把别人方言拿走。你已经对上海、广东干这事了。那么，哪个地方是下一个受害者?
#2 Guest_Wu_*
Yeah yeah, you want everybody to become mandarin clones and good "hans".
Well to be honest, I have met a few people on my travels in Guangzhou who told me that it would be better for Cantonese to have a seperate nation and no direct control from Beijing.
很好很好，你想让每个人都成为说着普通话的克隆人并且成为标准的“汉人”。
说实话，我在广州旅行遇到的一些人，他们告诉我也许广东成为一个北京控制之外的独立国家会更好。
#3 Sliceofred
Quote
Well to be honest, I have met a few people on my travels in Guangzhou who told me that it would be better for Cantonese to have a seperate nation and no direct control from Beijing.
说实话，我在广州旅行遇到的一些人，他们告诉我也许广东成为一个北京控制之外的独立国家会更好。
--
Really, would be interesting to have a poll and see how many people would favour it. Promoting Cantonese at schools, society, government.... sounds interesting. Of course nobody would dare speak about it in public, we already saw what happened when those villages in Guangzhou fought with the police.
真的吗，做一个投票看看有多少人赞成这个想法，这也许很有趣。在学校、社会、政府促进广东话...听起来不错。当然没有人会在公共场合冒险谈论这个话题，当广东附近的村民与警察搏斗时，我们已经看到发生了什么。
#4 palapa
the only reason is because china is still closing themselves up ...
while HK is used to be british colony, their view of life is entirely different from china ... however their language cantonese is orginated from chinese dialect as well
only recently that china open up themselves and encouraging people from all over the world to see their culture .. and the first places they visit of course is famous places like shanghai .. etc
how do u expect people to know about china ... but u will see a vast difference in a couple of years time when people finally understand about the vast cultural different between the different places of china
唯一的原因是中国人仍然在闭关锁国......
因为香港过去是英国人的殖民地，所以他们关于生活的想法与大陆完全不同......然而他们所说的广东话也还是起源于中国的方言的。
直到现在中国开放了自己，并且欢迎全世界的人来参观他们的文化......而这些人第一个访问的地方当然是有名的地方，像上海...等等。
你期待大家怎样来了解中国......但是，当大家最终了解中国各地的不同文化之后，几年内你将在海外看到中国文化的各种各样的不同点。
-------------译者：pandarunner-------------
#5 Guest_Guest_whatever_*_*
not another stupid topic like this again :duh
again there's more generalization which is leading to more sterotypes like there isn't enough of that already without a so called 'chinese' to add to it
别再来这种二逼帖子了。像这种一棒子打死的说法只会引起更多的成见，还要加上一个所谓的“中国人”。
so again, most Chinese do not think that Chinese = Guangzhou or HK :starizrolleyes: sure there are many Han chinese but there other nationalities that make up China such as Bai or Mongolian. China is a very large country, even from an evolutionary aspect it's impossible to expect all "Chinese" to be carbon copies of each other. referenced from http://en.wikipedia....lities_of_China
那么，大部分中国人不会认为中国人=广东人或香港人。（中国）确实汉族人更多，但也有像白族或蒙古族这样的民族共同组成中国。中国是一个大国，仅仅从进化的角度都不能说所有的“中国人”都是同根生，参考： http://en.wikipedia....lities_of_China
As to the so called language barrier, please do some reasearch and obtain solid evidence and facts before making any statement that are purely based on personal opinion, speculation and random generalizations.
至于所谓的语言障碍，麻烦去读点书找些实证和事实，不要发这种一己之见，也别来意淫和当专家。
As I've stated China itself is a large country that was never wholly united as based on history even today there are sections such as Tibet where China's claims upon it are being challenged.
我说过，中国是一个大国，从古至今都没有完全一体化；现在都在经受来自一些像xz这样的地方的挑战。
So ok to simplify this for you, even in the beginning of the 1900, it was rare for individuals living in villages to travel farther than to surrounding villages not to mention venturing into Northern China if they lived for example in southern China, which could explain the diversity in dialects as each village developed variations in each as a means to communicate uniquely so dialects were mostly the creation of geography and survival. This could be compared to dialects of American English if you're so obsessed about that example.
Cantonese is one of those dialects that most closely resembles "Old Chinese" in it's structure as it possesses 9 tones while Mandarin has simplified to 5 tones so if you wanted original Old Chinese, it'd be Cantonese.
In reference to http://en.wikipedia....spoken_language clearly indicates that even within Mandarin there are variations and differences ie dialects. But Mandarin or Bejing Mandarin is the lingua franca thus many "Chinese" speak it in order to communicate to others of a different dialect for social or economical means.
Thus in conclusion, China is a diverse country and the term "Chinese" is much more complex and cannot be defined in such simplistic and shallow terms.
简单点说，20世纪初的中国，农村人很少会远走他乡，最多见见邻村的乡亲，华南人更不会去远涉华北；这就解释了为什么每个村的方言都不一样。方言作为一种独特的沟通方式，源于地理差异和自我生存。如果你再纠结于这个例子，就可以拿它和美国英语方言做一下比较。
广东话是最接近“古汉语”的一种方言，里面包含9个音调；而普通话只有5个。如果你想知道古汉语的渊源，最好去了解广东话。
参考一下维基百科词条： http://en.wikipedia....spoken_language，明确说了普通话里面也有区分。但是普通话（或者说是北京话）是通用语言，所以很多操不同方言的“中国人”为了彼此交流而把它当成一种社交或者经济手段加以运用。
总之，中国是一个大杂烩，“中国人”这三个字过于复杂，无法用三言两语来定义。
-------------译者：anyan7654-------------
#6 MerryHellGoRound （楼主）
palapa, on Feb 28 2006 5 11 AM, said:
the only reason is because china is still closing themselves up ...
唯一的原因是中国人然在闭关锁国......
--
I hope you are right. Unfortunately, for many of the cantonese speaking ABCs, CBCs and BBCs, it could already be too late.
我希望你是对的，然而不幸的是，对于很多说着广东话的美籍华人，加拿大籍华人跟英籍华人，闭关锁国已经太晚了
Guest_whatever_*, on Feb 28 2006 5 20 AM, said:
not another stupid topic like this again :duh
别再来这种二逼帖子了
--
Cantonese is similiar to old Chinese in tone and grammar but not in the way its spoken.
Old Chinese was multi-syllable, kinda similiar to maybe korean. It gradually evolved into a one syllable per character form that we know today.
粤语跟中国古语在腔调跟语法上有些相似，但说起来并不是完全相同。
中国古语是一种多音节语言，有些相似于韩语。然后古语逐渐演化成了一种今天我们所知道的单音节的汉语。
#7 Guest_Guest_whatever_*_*
MerryHellGoRound, on Feb 28 2006 7 34 PM, said:
Cantonese is similiar to old Chinese in tone and grammar but not in the way its spoken.
Old Chinese was multi-syllable, kinda similiar to maybe korean. It gradually evolved into a one syllable per character form that we know today.
粤语跟中国古语在腔调跟语法上有些相似，但说起来并不是完全相同。
中国古语是一种多音节语言，有些相似于韩语。然后古语逐渐演化成了一种今天我们所知道的单音节的汉语。
--
Where is your source for this claim? Even scholars today do not know exactly how it was pronounced and draw their conclusions from Classical Chinese, a written form.
"Since Old Chinese was the language spoken by Chinese when classical works such as the Analects of Confucius, the Mencius, and the Tao Te Ching were written, Old Chinese was preserved for the next two millennia in the form of Classical Chinese, a style of written Chinese that emulates the grammar and vocabulary of Old Chinese as presented in those works. Classical Chinese was for two millennia the usual language used for official purposes in China, Korea, Japan, and Vietnam. However, there is great variation within Classical Chinese, based mainly on when something was written, and the Classical Chinese of more recent writers, as well as that found outside of China, would probably be difficult for someone from Confucius's era to understand.
这就是你提出观点所依靠的资源么？就算学究也没法清楚的从文言文中得知他们的读音。
“自从古汉语在论语，孟子，道德经等经典成书的时候被使用。古汉语从此后在中国的经典中保存了2000年，在那些作品中展现了一种模仿古汉语语法跟词汇的风格。古汉语在超过2000年的时间里作为中国，韩国，日本还有越南的官方语言。然后经典的汉语经历的很大的变化，主要是在书写方面，近代的文言文跟中国以外的文言文，对于从孔夫子那个时代来的人来说是非常难以理解的。
-------------译者：燕归来-------------
The phonology of Old Chinese was imperfectly preserved in Classical Chinese, because the way the Chinese writing system indicates pronunciation is much less clear than the way an alphabet shows it. As a result, the pronunciation of Old Chinese can only be tentatively reconstructed, and is unknown outside academic circles."
古汉语体系没能在文言文中被完美地体现，因为中文书写与发音的联系是远远不如字母系统的。而这所导致的结果就是，古汉语的发音只能被试探性地重现——作为未知的学术领域。
"Chinese characters are not alphabetic and do not reflect sound changes, and the tentative reconstruction of Old Chinese is an endeavour only a few centuries old. As a result, Classical Chinese is not read with a reconstruction of Old Chinese pronunciation; instead, it is either read with the pronunciations of the reader's own variety of Chinese, such as modern Mandarin or Cantonese; or, in varieties of Chinese that have it (e.g. Southern Min), a special set of pronunciation used for Classical Chinese or vocabulary and usage borrowed from Classical Chinese usage. (In practice, all varieties of Chinese combine these two extremes; Mandarin and Cantonese, for example, also has words that are pronounced one way in colloquial usage and another way when used in Classical Chinese or in specialized terms coming from Classical Chinese, though the system is not as extensive as that of Southern Min.)
“中文特征不是字母性的，它不反映读音变化。古汉语的试探性重现是一项只有数个世纪的尝试，因此，文言文读起来并不能联系到古汉文的发音；反而文言文的发音是因不同口音而异的，如：现代普通话或广东话，又或者，像南明朝那样为文言文或者字典设立专门的发音，用法则借用文言文规则。（事实上，所有种类的中国话都结合了这两种极端；举例而言，普通话与广东话在口语中有发音相同的文字；而在文言文或者引用、延伸于文言文的专业术语中，这些文字又被以另一种方式运用。当然，现在的体系没有在南明朝时期那么丰富。)
-------------译者：monkbobby-------------
Korean, Japanese, or Vietnamese readers of Classical Chinese use systems of pronunciation specific to their own languages. For example, Japanese speakers use On'yomi and (more rarely) Kun'yomi, which are the ways kanji, or Chinese characters, are read when they are used to write in Japanese. Kunten, a system that aids Japanese speakers with Classical Chinese word order, was also used.
朝鲜人、日本人或越南人在读古汉语时，使用他们本国语言系统中的发音系统来表音。例如，日本人在日语中使用汉字时，用音读和训读（较少用）的方式来读汉字。另外，训点符号也被用来辅助日本人读古汉字的读音顺序。
Since the pronunciation of Old Chinese or other forms of historical Chinese (such as Middle Chinese) have long been lost, characters which once rhymed in poetry often no longer do, or vice versa. Poetry and other rhyme-based writing thus becomes less coherent than the original reading must have been. However, some modern Chinese dialects adhere more closely to the original pronunciations than others, as evident by the preservation of rhyme structures. Some Chinese speakers thus believe wenyan literature, especially poetry, sounds better when read with certain dialects considered to be closer to ancient pronunciation, such as Cantonese or Southern Min."
由于古汉语以及其他形式的古文（例如中古汉语）的发音已经失传，一些曾经押韵的诗词里的字不再押韵，反之亦然。诗词和其他基于韵的著作现在的读音与原来读音变得不再一致。然而，当今中国有些方言还相对比较接近古代读音。一些方言还保留着原来韵结构。因此一些中国人认为文言文，特别是诗词，如果用一些比较接近古汉语发音的方言来读，例如粤语和闽南话，会更加悦耳。
referenced from http://en.wikipedia....hinese_language andhttp://en.wikipedia....iki/Old_Chinese
The matter is further detailed in http://en.wikipedia....inese_phonology and http://en.wikipedia..../Middle_Chinese.
参考http://en.wikipedia....hinese_language 和http://en.wikipedia....iki/Old_Chinese
更详尽的分析见http://en.wikipedia....inese_phonology 和 http://en.wikipedia..../Middle_Chinese.
The matter is further detailed in http://en.wikipedia....inese_phonology and http://en.wikipedia..../Middle_Chinese.
参考http://en.wikipedia....hinese_language 和http://en.wikipedia....iki/Old_Chinese
更详尽的分析见http://en.wikipedia....inese_phonology 和 http://en.wikipedia..../Middle_Chinese.
Thus I sincerely doubt you have concidered this matter beyond generalizations and speculation without evidence to back up your claims. This matter is more complex than your two sentences can explain and neither can my brief summary.
因此我非常怀疑，你对此问题只是进行简单概括、推测，缺乏足够的依据来支持你的论点。这个问题太复杂了，不是你的三言两语，也不是我的简短总结能解释清楚的。
-------------译者：燕归来-------------
#8 ^x^A reason to love^-^
MerryHellGoRound, on Feb 28 2006 6 34 PM, said:
I hope you are right. Unfortunately, for many of the cantonese speaking ABCs, CBCs and BBCs, it could already be too late.
Cantonese is similiar to old Chinese in tone and grammar but not in the way its spoken.
Old Chinese was multi-syllable, kinda similiar to maybe korean. It gradually evolved into a one syllable per character form that we know today.
我希望你是对的，然而不幸的是，对于很多说着广东话的美籍华人，加拿大籍华人跟英籍华人，闭关锁国已经太晚了
粤语跟中国古语在腔调跟语法上有些相似，但说起来并不是完全相同。
中国古语是一种多音节语言，有些相似于韩语。然后古语逐渐演化成了一种今天我们所知道的单音节的汉语。
--
COULD it could
that means your suggesting there is a chance.
its never to late to learn.
Im a 16 year old BBC and i know about the forbidden city, the hidden grave"bing ma yung" i know many chinese who know about this
even if i dont KNOW mandarine i still feel a connection... i know cantonese
if there was stuck in a room of say a mandarine person and others i would try as hard as i can to try and talk mandarin to them
and to say old chinese is multi-syllable and then alternating to one syllable... you cant possibly know that.
no one knows because now one is able to live that long to actually prove it and all these years the chinese language we speak MUST have evolved...
I for one actually like listening to Japanese music like Miyavi and Kra and Gazzette
And i for one like watching Korean movies
We're all asian so i dont find this a problem
Also im not too fond of Andy Lau, so what?
it doesnt make you go "urgh!!! i dont feel chinese or whatever you were saying..."
I like Jolin Tsai and Wong Guang Liang and Huang Yi da
那意味着你在这的提议是一个机会。
学习永远不会太晚。
我是个16岁的BBC，我知道关于紫禁城的事情以及许多中国人熟知的暗墓 ”兵马俑“。
我会广东话 ，即使我不懂普通话我也能体会到个中联系。。。
（以前）如果在我与一个说普通话的人之间有了隔阂和其它什么 (交流妨碍)，我会尽我所能去跟他们讲普通话。
至于说中文从多音节演变为单音节，你不可能了解它。
没有人了解。因为没有人能活那么长，去举证这些年来我们讲的中文肯定涉及到了blablabla...
我个人十分喜欢日本音乐，如石原贵雅、Kra ( 由PSC旗下三名成员组成 )和Gazzette (5人组合的视觉系乐队)。
我个人也喜欢看韩国电影。
我们都是亚洲人因此我不认为这有什么问题。
并且我也不是很喜欢刘德华，那又怎样？
不要觉得："呃！这货没说中文这货其实啥也没说吧 ……"
我喜欢蔡依林（台湾）、王光良 (马来西亚) 和 黄义达（新加坡）。
-------------译者：野狼-------------
So, what if i dont know mandarine i can always look up the lyrics and meanings.
You learn new things everyday...
business man may just see China as selling cheap stuff and large work force...
but my friends see China as traditional, and many people get mixed up with Japanese Kimono and Chinese traditional dresses
and also Korean's culture are mistaken with China culture by many of my friends...
Many whites here always (i dont know why) treat asians harsh but treat chinese harsher when they find out if they're chinese or japanese...
所以，如果我不会普通话我可以查歌词的意思。
每天你都在学习新的东西...
商人也许仅仅把中国看做一个可以销售大量廉价物品和有丰富劳动力的地方...
但我朋友看来中国还是蛮传统的，穿着日本和服和中国传统服饰的人混在一起。
我的很多朋友把韩国文化误认为中国文化...
很多白人对亚洲人总是很苛刻，但如果他们发现他们是中国人或日本人就更苛刻了...
Maybe because Tokyo is seen as "high tech" and modern? and also manga and anime increased their popularity and China is seen by others that it is very "not" modern, but they are catching up !
but many of my friends see Hong Kong seperated from China
they dont see Hong Kong as apart of China
...
whenever people ask me what language i speak i would say "i speak Cantonese but trying to learn Mandarine. Also i am from the Hakka Bloodline which is one of the many 60 odd tribes in China and also cantonese is one of 50 and more dialects which are still in use today in China..."
lol atleast they know!!! heheee
也许是因为东京被视为“高科技”和现代？同时日本漫画和动漫也增加了他们的名气也许是因为东京被视为“高科技”和现代？同时日本漫画和动漫也增加了他们的名气。中国在别人看来不那么现代，但是他们在迎头赶上！
但我很多朋友觉得香港分离了中国，他们不认为香港是中国的一部分
……
无论何时人们问我讲什么语言我会回答 "我说粤语但我正在努力学习普通话。我是客家族的，客家族是中国60个奇部落之一，同时，粤语也是中国现今仍然在使用的50种方言之一... "
-------------译者：寰宇龙腾-------------
#9 Guests
Personally, I think the Chinese culture amongst Hong Kong youths is a bastardized version of it (yes, I seem to be using that word a lot recently). However, one could argue that the Cultural Revolution in China destroyed many aspects of Chinese culture, and places like Hong Kong retained those aspects while they have been lost in China.
However, I'm an overseas "Honger" who knows about the Forbidden City, Tiananmen Square, Torracotta Army in Xi'an, Summer Palance (Yuan Ming Yuan), etc. through my own little research.
个人认为，香港年轻人中的中国文化是不正宗的（是的，我最近这词用的比较多）。但是有人认为文革毁坏了中国文化的很多方面，而香港则保留了那部分。
虽然我是一名海外港人，但通过自己的小研究我知道了紫禁城，天安广场，西安兵马俑，圆明园等等。
#10 bluepigsinthesky
China's really too big, and diverse to make such a generalization. Mandarin is actually the more commonly spoken language in China, with varying degrees depending on the provinces.
AND, that's an unfair to say that north american chinese are ignorant of their chinese culture. I live in Texas, the southern most state, and i can safely say that even with the assimilation of Chinese into the local society, most still retain their identity as a Chinese, just with the simple values and traditions they maintain. Of course, this is not true with everyone but that's just the way the cookie crumbles.
中国真的很大而且多采，不易概括。普通话是通用语言，各省份之间也有变化。而且，说北美的华人对中国不了解是不公的。我住在德克萨斯，在南方各州，我敢说即使把华人吸收进当地的社区，他们也保持自己中国人的认同，价值观和传统。当然，并不是每个人都如此。
I don't think cultural unity of the chinese is based on a universal liking for the same music, or even clothes. If anything, chinese are united by their diversity, from the different clans to the ties to the past.
Cultural ignorance is not confined to just north america anyways. When i visited home in malaysia, i was often asked about cowboys and horses. It's just because of the influence of mass media that stereotypes form.
i digress and lost my train of thought.
我认为中国人的文化统一并非基于普遍的相同的音乐，甚至服饰。如果有什么区别的话，那就是中国通过多样性而结合，从不同的宗族到依赖的过去。文化无知并不局限于北美。当我回到马来西亚的家乡，我经常被问到关于牛仔和马。这只是因为媒体的陈词滥调的影响。
我有点离题了。
#11 muraki-chan
it's not true... i'm a cantonese speaking cbc and i know about the forbidden city and that burial place... and if you always feel like cantonese people are shunning you out, you should try talking to them or something... if you don't approach them, they won't talk to you... that's what i found it (and i'm cantonese myself = =) and i listen to mandarin songs as well... so please, don't generalize...
and you always make these threads... seems like you have so much to talk about...
-------------------------------------------------
这不是真的...我是广东人说加拿大中文，我知道紫禁城，陵寝。如果你觉得广东人回避你，你应该试着和他们沟通...如果你不接近他们，他们也不会和你说话...这是我的发现（我自己也是广东人==）我也听普通话的歌曲...所以请不要以偏概全...
而且你老是发这样的帖子...貌似你有很多话要说...
-------------译者：燕归来-------------
#12 j a n e
i am from north america but i know what chinese means. i know china is not only hk or guangzhou. china is no way that small. i know how diverse china is and how its not only cantonese and mandarin. there is a many different dialects than that out there.
people have different interests. i don't even listen to chinese or korean music.
if you live overseas, can't you communicate with them in english? sorry if i'm wrong but you mentioned something about north america
我来自北美但我知道中文意味着什么。我知道中国绝不仅仅只是香港或者广州，中国可没有那么小。我也知道中国的（民族）多样性，那绝非是广东话和普通话所能概括的。比起其它地方，中国有许许多多不同的方言。
人们都有着不同的兴趣。我是不喜欢中国或者韩国音乐的。
如果你住在海外，难道你不能跟他们说英语吗？如果我说错了那么抱歉，我只是看到你提及关于北美的种种。。。
it's not true... i'm a cantonese speaking cbc and i know about the forbidden city and that burial place... and if you always feel like cantonese people are shunning you out, you should try talking to them or something... if you don't approach them, they won't talk to you... that's what i found it (and i'm cantonese myself = =) and i listen to mandarin songs as well... so please, don't generalize...
and you always make these threads... seems like you have so much to talk about...
-------------------------------------------------
这不是真的...我是广东人说加拿大中文，我知道紫禁城，陵寝。如果你觉得广东人回避你，你应该试着和他们沟通...如果你不接近他们，他们也不会和你说话...这是我的发现（我自己也是广东人==）我也听普通话的歌曲...所以请不要以偏概全...
而且你老是发这样的帖子...貌似你有很多话要说...
-------------译者：燕归来-------------
#12 j a n e
i am from north america but i know what chinese means. i know china is not only hk or guangzhou. china is no way that small. i know how diverse china is and how its not only cantonese and mandarin. there is a many different dialects than that out there.
people have different interests. i don't even listen to chinese or korean music.
if you live overseas, can't you communicate with them in english? sorry if i'm wrong but you mentioned something about north america
我来自北美但我知道中文意味着什么。我知道中国绝不仅仅只是香港或者广州，中国可没有那么小。我也知道中国的（民族）多样性，那绝非是广东话和普通话所能概括的。比起其它地方，中国有许许多多不同的方言。
人们都有着不同的兴趣。我是不喜欢中国或者韩国音乐的。
如果你住在海外，难道你不能跟他们说英语吗？如果我说错了那么抱歉，我只是看到你提及关于北美的种种。。。
#13 Linda Shirley Sheh
well tyes there are all these division and why is that beacuse there are so many of us but there is always a subculture within cultires just as there are cliques ar schools
as i can see it here are some types that i see
cbcs who are cbcs of course
then there are those who dont want to be friends with chinese ppl for somereason ebcause they think they are wihite- i see that in koreans too la
there are also those from HK who came here in their early teens and who think they are sooooo HK that they are more HK and meaner than those actually from HK
there are those from China
there are those wanna be CBCs who try to be like HK ppl
像在学校里分的小帮小派那样，因为总存在着亚文化圈子，我们也分成了不同的类型。
据我所知，就类型而言
CBC当然就是CBC（加拿大籍华人）
然后这里有一些家伙由于一些原因不希望跟中国人成为朋友——比如他们觉得自己是白人，我看到对于韩国人他们也有那么干过。
这里也有一些在年少时来到这里的香港人，认为自己非常 “香港”，甚至比土生土长的香港人还要 “香港”。
这里有来自中国的人。
这里有努力想变成CBC的人，比如香港人。
-------------译者：monkbobby-------------
#14 ipigS2bearyou
You seem to hate cantonese people with a passion Since you keep makin boards about them
似乎你很热衷于憎恨广东人，因为你一直拿他们来开涮
Accept the fact that China has many different dialects, and we dont all speak mandarin.
I speak cantonese, and I know about the Forbidden City and such as.
Ive been to China, all the mandarin speakin parts too.
接受现实吧，中国有很多不同的方言，不是所有人都说普通话的。我说广东话，我知道紫禁城。我去过中国，还有所有说普通话的地方。
And what does HK entertainment have to do with language?
I honestly could care less what you perfer to watch/listen to.
So you dont like HK entertainment, dont watch it.
香港娱乐圈关语言什么事？你喜欢看啥听啥我真的懒得管。既然你不喜欢香港娱乐圈，别看就是了。
So cantonese people hang around each other?Mandarin speakin people probably do the same The world is made up of cliques Live with it.
广东人喜欢扎堆？说普通话的估计也是这样子。世界就是由各种各样的小圈子组成的。没什么大不了的。
Jesus christ. Chinese is chinese. I rather have variety than all be the same.
老天。中国人就是中国人。多姿多彩比千篇一律好太多啦。
#15 doopeysmith
Im not a fan of Cantonese people (rude, arrogant, pampered people) but northerners are very incompetent when it comes to running a country. They always exacerbate (worsen) things by trying to mandarinize everything and everybody. Northerners must have low intellectual points for this and other reasons. Thats their problem. They make everything too easy for the Cantonese and the rest of us to launch and find ways and reasons to resist, lol. Talk about low class dignity.
我对广东人也不感冒（无礼、傲慢、贪吃）。不过北方人在治国方面也很无能。他们老想着按北方的标准来改造所有的人和事，结果败事有余。（译者注：mandarinize比较难译，按自己的理解发帖者是个南方人）。北方人智商低或者别的原因。不过那是他们的问题。广东人和我们总是很容易找到法子和理由去对抗他们。lol. 低层人的自尊。
Im not a fan of Cantonese people (rude, arrogant, pampered people) but northerners are very incompetent when it comes to running a country. They always exacerbate (worsen) things by trying to mandarinize everything and everybody. Northerners must have low intellectual points for this and other reasons. Thats their problem. They make everything too easy for the Cantonese and the rest of us to launch and find ways and reasons to resist, lol. Talk about low class dignity.
我对广东人也不感冒（无礼、傲慢、贪吃）。不过北方人在治国方面也很无能。他们老想着按北方的标准来改造所有的人和事，结果败事有余。（译者注：mandarinize比较难译，按自己的理解发帖者是个南方人）。北方人智商低或者别的原因。不过那是他们的问题。广东人和我们总是很容易找到法子和理由去对抗他们。lol. 低层人的自尊。
#16 KingGoujian
Northerners want to turn everything into a desert. Cantonese want to turn everything into a jungle. Jiangnanese just want to be left alone.
北方人想把一切变成沙漠。广东想把一切变成森林。江南人想置身事外。
Most people in the west have never even hard of the Jiangnanese and our language (Wu Chinese), one of the main primary, distinctive branches of the ancient Chinese language. All they see and hear is Cantonese and Mandarin, but not Jiangnanese. Not even overseas Chinese have even heard of us, except for the occasional person who has heard of Shanghainese. I have to say that the Cantonese have it lucky compared to us, they have a sizeable overseas population... The Northerners also have it lucky, because they breed like rodents and their language is the 'national language' as well as the fact that the CCP loves to promote their bland, gaudy, useless culture over the Jiangnanese culture.
大多数西方人从没听说过江南人和我们的语言（吴语）。吴语是古汉语的一个主要的特别的分支。他们看的听的基本上都是广东话和普通话，没听说过江南人和江南话。包括海外华人，也没听说过我们。当然偶尔会有人听说过上海话。只能说广东人比我们幸运，他们在海外的人数不少。北方人运气也好，他们想老鼠一样繁殖，他们的语言是“官方语言”。TG喜欢将乏味、华而不实、毫无用处的文化强加于江南文化之上。
'Spring Festival'? Hahaha.. I never call it that, it's always been called under its correct name for me, "CHINESE NEW YEAR". Spring Festival? Sounds like a name used by northern nomads or western asskissers.
春节？哈哈哈……我从来不这么叫，我一直叫它的正确名称“中国新年”。春节？听起来就像北方游牧民族或舔西方PP的人才用的名称。
Northerners want to turn everything into a desert. Cantonese want to turn everything into a jungle. Jiangnanese just want to be left alone.
北方人想把一切变成沙漠。广东想把一切变成森林。江南人想置身事外。
Most people in the west have never even hard of the Jiangnanese and our language (Wu Chinese), one of the main primary, distinctive branches of the ancient Chinese language. All they see and hear is Cantonese and Mandarin, but not Jiangnanese. Not even overseas Chinese have even heard of us, except for the occasional person who has heard of Shanghainese. I have to say that the Cantonese have it lucky compared to us, they have a sizeable overseas population... The Northerners also have it lucky, because they breed like rodents and their language is the 'national language' as well as the fact that the CCP loves to promote their bland, gaudy, useless culture over the Jiangnanese culture.
大多数西方人从没听说过江南人和我们的语言（吴语）。吴语是古汉语的一个主要的特别的分支。他们看的听的基本上都是广东话和普通话，没听说过江南人和江南话。包括海外华人，也没听说过我们。当然偶尔会有人听说过上海话。只能说广东人比我们幸运，他们在海外的人数不少。北方人运气也好，他们想老鼠一样繁殖，他们的语言是“官方语言”。TG喜欢将乏味、华而不实、毫无用处的文化强加于江南文化之上。
'Spring Festival'? Hahaha.. I never call it that, it's always been called under its correct name for me, "CHINESE NEW YEAR". Spring Festival? Sounds like a name used by northern nomads or western asskissers.
春节？哈哈哈……我从来不这么叫，我一直叫它的正确名称“中国新年”。春节？听起来就像北方游牧民族或舔西方PP的人才用的名称。
#17 skYmaster
From my experience, Cantonese don´t hate Northern Chinese or consider them as being less Chinese or something like that, but they are afraid of the "political orientations"-clash as they are totally different - one being democratic and the other one being communist. If they hang out together, they are afraid of upsetting the other "group" due to different views.
Moreover, due to the cultural revolution, many Northern Chinese lost the true Chinese culture, hence people from HK like to stick together as they have more in common culturally.
从我个人的经历来看，广东人并不恨北方人，也不觉得自己不是中国人。但他们最怕是“政治取向”-因为不同的政治取向导致的冲突-一方是民主派，另一方是共产党。如果他们待在一起，他们害怕因为观点不同引起另一方的不适。另外，由于文革的原因，许多北方人已经丢失了中国传统，因此香港人喜欢扎堆是因为文化上共同点更多一些。
-------------译者：野狼-------------
#18 doopeysmith
skYmaster, on 27 December 2011 - 12:04 AM, said:
From my experience, Cantonese don´t hate Northern Chinese or consider them as being less Chinese or something like that……
从我个人的经历来看，广东人并不恨北方人，也不觉得自己不是中国人……
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HK ppl are not chinese and their culture is bastardized. You aren't even chinese. Look to jiangnan for the authentic chinese culture (despite northerner attempts to destroy them)
香港人自己觉得他们不是中国人，他们的文化已经不是正宗的中国文化了。你甚至都不是中国人。去江南看看地道的中国文化吧（尽管北方人试图消灭他们）
#19 allanandtherain
It isn't entirely true what you say, but it is because most of the wealth in asia is concentrated on the southern region that they get most of the spot lights when cultural stereotypes are made. But like those several people above, i do know about some of the cultural tendencies in northern china. Maybe the people you know are "white washed?"
你说的不完全正确，但因为亚洲大部分的财富集中在南部地区，当刻板的文化形成时，他们赢得了最大的关注。就像前几个人说的那样，我确实知道在中国北方的一些文化倾向。也许你知道的那些人被"美化"了？
I'm a CBC and i think that it goes both ways when Cantonese and Mandarin people are together. It's like a duck and a chicken talking. IMO, i think in fact mandarin people have less flexibility in conversing with us. If it wasn't for the english to gap the bridge between us, i highly doubt we would talk over here. When mandarin people try to speak broken cantonese, I don't laugh at them. In fact i tell them that i am impressed. I can hear some words and guess most of what they are saying by context. Cantonese and Mandarin are mutually intelligible.
我是加拿大华人的，我觉得当讲广东话的中国人和讲普通话的中国人在一起时，交流是双向的。就像鸡鸭在讲话一样。事实上讲普通话的中国人和我们谈话时灵活性较小。如果不是英语跨越了我们之间的桥梁，我很怀疑我们是否有机会在这里交流。当讲普通话的中国人尝试着去说破碎的广东话，我并不嘲笑他们。说真的，我告诉他们这给我留下了深刻的印象。我可以听懂一些词语，根据语境能猜出大概意思。广东话和普通话是可以互相理解的。
-------------译者：husama-------------
But in the other way around, it never happens. I get laughed at when i try to speak mandarin, they complain about how the tones are rough. that they cannot hear when they obviously can. atleast try to return the favor and try to guess. Maybe the people i meet are crappy, but thats my opinion
但相反的，这从不发生。当我说普通话时，他们总取笑我，还抱怨我发出的音调很粗糙他们听不清，而事实是，他们显然能听清我说的话。他们至少得试着去理解一下吧！可能我遇到的人都很垃圾，但这只是我个人意见。
doopeysmith, on 27 December 2011 - 06:21 AM, said:
HK ppl are not chinese and their culture is bastardized. You aren't even chinese. Look to jiangnan for the authentic chinese culture (despite northerner attempts to destroy them)
--香港人自己觉得他们不是中国人，他们的文化已经不是正宗的中国文化了。你甚至都不是中国人。去江南看看地道的中国文化吧（尽管北方人试图消灭他们）
---
so i suppose manchuria influenced north is any more chinese than HK people? But i do agree, Hk has been under western influence for so long, but atleast HK people have their own voice. my grandparents went to HK and they are proud of it, anyone who did that i know are proud of it. I see more of a culture there than that of some random place out north.
所以我假设你的意思是受满洲文化影响的北方比香港更加中国咯? 我同意这点，香港受西方文化影响了很长时间，但至少香港人拥有他们自己的声音。我祖父母去过香港，他们很为这事自豪，我知道的任何做过这事的人都会感到自豪。我在香港看到的文化氛围比除北方外其他随便一些地方都多。
#20 KingGoujian
Typical chimpanzee logic. I could've sworn that the cantonese are not humans, but chimps from another planet. There is nothing more I could discuss because trying to explain things to a cantonese hongkonger is like explaining quantum physics to a monkey.
典型的猩猩逻辑。我可以发誓这些广东人不是人类，他们只是其他星球来的黑猩猩。我没什么好说的了，因为跟广东人香港人解释这些事就像跟猴子讨论量子力学。
#21 qianliuwuyue
Cantonese people = chimpanzees. They are the true epitomy of a ''cheap chink rat''
guang
广东人=黑猩猩。 他们乃猥琐中国佬的典型缩影。
#22 allanandtherain
so i suppose Cantonese people = chimps, Shanghai people = apes, and fujian people = orangutangs?
Respect every regions language, that is why i don't like mandarin people. You want everyone to speak it. fine enforce it, but don't take away our regional languages. You've done that to shanghai, guangdong, what next?
所以我可以假设广东人=黑猩猩，上海人=类人猿，福建人=猩猩?
除了地方语言，这就是我不喜欢大陆人的原因。你想所有人学普通话，好，强制推普，但你不能把别人方言拿走。你已经对上海、广东干这事了。那么，哪个地方是下一个受害者?
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